Daniel Dennett on Artificial Intelligence, New Atheism, and the Decline of Religion

David Pakman Show
10 Mar 202417:29

TLDRIn this interview, philosopher and cognitive scientist Daniel Dennett discusses his concerns about artificial intelligence, emphasizing the immediate problem of counterfeit people and the loss of trust in society. He reflects on his career, the impact of AI on truth and democracy, and the evolution of religious belief in America. Dennett also addresses the role of religion in providing a sense of community and belonging, and the challenges faced by secular institutions in fulfilling this need.

Takeaways

  • ๐Ÿค– Daniel Dennett expresses concern about the immediate impact of AI, particularly large language models like GPT, which could manipulate us and undermine trust in society.
  • ๐Ÿ’ก Dennett highlights the potential for AI to create 'counterfeit people' that can evolve on their own, posing a threat to truth and democracy.
  • ๐Ÿ—ฃ๏ธ He discusses the example of an AI-generated clone of Joe Biden, illustrating how AI can mimic voices and further complicate the verification of information.
  • ๐Ÿ“‰ Dennett notes a decrease in religious belief in the US, attributing some of this change to the influence of technology and the 'new atheist' movement.
  • ๐ŸŒŸ He suggests that the vastness of the universe can be a substitute for religious belief, providing inspiration and a sense of wonder.
  • ๐Ÿ  Dennett acknowledges the unique role of religion in providing a sense of belonging and community, which the state cannot replicate.
  • ๐Ÿ’” He emphasizes the heart-wrenching impact of tradition erosion as societies secularize and the potential for anger and desperation among those affected.
  • ๐Ÿšจ Dennett warns of a 'wild west' period in information technology, with the rise of informational weaponry and the erosion of trust in institutions.
  • ๐Ÿ“– He reflects on his past work, including 'Breaking the Spell', and the importance of approaching religious critique with care for the emotional impact on believers.
  • ๐ŸŒ Dennett discusses the้€ๆ˜ŽๅŒ– of secrets due to technology and the need for institutions to adapt to the new epistemic environment.
  • ๐Ÿค” The conversation touches on the balance between the positive and negative uses of technology, such as empowering the public with information while also enabling misinformation and manipulation.

Q & A

  • What is Daniel Dennett's primary concern regarding artificial intelligence?

    -Daniel Dennett's primary concern is that people are looking too far ahead with their worries about AI, and he believes the real issue is the current problem of counterfeit people, which refers to large language models like GPTs that can manipulate us and undermine trust in society.

  • How does Dennett view the impact of AI on truth and trust in society?

    -Dennett sees AI as a threat to truth and trust because it can create parasitical informational objects capable of evolving on their own and destroying trust, which is crucial for civilization and democracy.

  • What example does Dennett use to illustrate the issue of AI-generated content?

    -Dennett cites the example of an AI-generated clone of Joe Biden that was used in a robo-call in New Hampshire, which sounded like the real Joe Biden, to show how AI can mimic voices and create counterfeit content.

  • How has the presence of AI and technology influenced the secularization of American society, according to Dennett?

    -Dennett believes that AI and technology have contributed to the secularization of America by changing the epistemic environment, making it harder to keep secrets and thus eroding traditional religious beliefs and practices.

  • What was Dennett's recommendation in his book 'Breaking the Spell' regarding the decline of religion?

    -In 'Breaking the Spell', Dennett recommended going slow and being careful about the decline of religion, recognizing that it would be heart-wrenching for many as their traditions erode and that the process would cause hurt, anger, and potential danger.

  • How does Dennett respond to criticism for being too hostile towards religion?

    -Dennett defends his approach by mentioning the emails and letters he received from people who were convinced by his arguments and switched sides, indicating that his method was effective in clearing the air for open discussion about religion.

  • What does Dennett believe can be a substitute for organized religion?

    -Dennett suggests that understanding the vastness and duration of the universe, along with the unlikely odds of one's existence, can serve as an inspirational and motivating framework, substituting the need for organized religion.

  • What unique aspect does Dennett acknowledge that religion provides that nothing else can?

    -Dennett acknowledges that religion, particularly church communities, provide a sense of belonging and home for people who otherwise feel homeless or unloved, which is something that non-governmental institutions should ideally continue to offer.

  • How does Dennett view the role of technology in the transparency of our epistemic environment?

    -Dennett sees technology as a fundamental change in the epistemic landscape, making it harder to keep secrets and increasing access to internal and corporate state secrets. He warns that institutions that don't adapt quickly to this new transparency will not survive.

  • What is Dennett's perspective on the impact of AI on the field of epistemology?

    -Dennett believes that AI is leading to a post-epistemic world where knowledge is under threat, and it requires fast and intelligent action to prevent disaster. He emphasizes the importance of truth and the challenges it faces in the current era.

  • How does Dennett address the concern of traditional religious institutions losing members to secularization?

    -Dennett points out that traditional religious institutions, such as the Southern Baptist Church, are worried about losing their younger generations to secularization. He notes that it takes years to raise a believer, but only minutes to lose one, highlighting the rapid pace of change.

Outlines

00:00

๐Ÿค– AI Concerns and Counterfeit People

Daniel Dennett discusses his concerns about artificial intelligence, emphasizing the immediate problem of 'counterfeit people' created by large language models like GPTs. He warns that these AIs could manipulate us into reproducing them, potentially destroying trust and civilization. Dennett also highlights the current issues with truth and democracy, and how AI-generated content, such as the AI clone of Joe Biden, challenges our ability to establish truth with evidence.

05:02

๐Ÿ“‰ The Decline of Organized Religion and AI's Role

Dennett reflects on the decline of organized religion in the US, attributing some of this change to the influence of AI and technology. He discusses the 'new atheist' movement and his book 'Breaking the Spell', noting that while the secularization of America is happening, it comes with pain and danger. Dennett also mentions his earlier work on the transparent future brought about by technology, which has led to an erosion of trust and a revolution in knowledge.

10:04

๐Ÿ—ฃ๏ธ The Impact of AI on Religious Belief

The conversation turns to the impact of AI on religious belief, with Dennett considering the need for a sacred, religious belief system and the lack of a good substitute for it. He personally finds inspiration in the vastness of the universe but acknowledges that many people desire simpler explanations. Dennett also discusses the role of religious communities in providing a sense of belonging and support for those who might otherwise feel homeless or unloved.

15:06

๐Ÿ“š Reflections on Dennett's Career and Memoir

The interview concludes with a reflection on Dennett's career and his memoir, 'I've Been Thinking'. The discussion touches on the importance of asking challenging questions and the impact of his work on readers. Dennett expresses satisfaction with the interview and the questions asked, indicating that the conversation was both enjoyable and meaningful.

Mindmap

Keywords

๐Ÿ’กArtificial Intelligence

Artificial Intelligence (AI) refers to the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. In the context of the video, AI is discussed as a technology with both fascinating potential and concerning implications, particularly in relation to its impact on trust and the spread of information.

๐Ÿ’กConsciousness

Consciousness is the state of being aware of and able to think and perceive one's surroundings, emotions, and thoughts. It is a central theme in Dennett's work, and in the video, it is implied as a concept that AI is striving to mimic but may never fully achieve, influencing the ethical and philosophical discussions surrounding AI development.

๐Ÿ’กEvolution

Evolution refers to the process by which species of organisms change over time through genetic variation and natural selection. In the video, Dennett's work on evolution is mentioned, highlighting his scientific approach to understanding the natural world, which contrasts with religious explanations.

๐Ÿ’กPhilosophy of Mind

The philosophy of mind is a branch of philosophy that deals with the nature of the mind, mental states, and the relationship between the mind and the physical body. Dennett's work in this area is crucial to the conversation about AI, as it explores the nature of consciousness and thought, which are being replicated by artificial systems.

๐Ÿ’กCounterfeit People

The term 'counterfeit people' refers to AI-generated entities that mimic human behavior and communication, potentially leading to the spread of misinformation and manipulation. Dennett warns of the dangers of such entities, which can undermine trust and truth in society.

๐Ÿ’กPost-Epistemic World

The 'post-epistemic world' is a concept that describes a future scenario where knowledge and truth are no longer reliable or valued, leading to a breakdown in the ability to discern fact from fiction. Dennett mentions this concept to highlight the potential dangers of AI and the need for fast and intelligent action to prevent such a scenario.

๐Ÿ’กNew Atheism

New Atheism is a movement characterized by outspoken criticism of religion and the promotion of atheism, often through books and public debates. Dennett's work is associated with this movement, and in the video, he reflects on its impact on society and the decline of religious belief in America.

๐Ÿ’กSecularization

Secularization refers to the process of converting or becoming secular, or the decline in religious influence and practice in society. Dennett sees this as an ongoing trend in America, driven in part by technological advancements and changes in the epistemic environment.

๐Ÿ’กTransparency

Transparency in this context refers to the openness and accessibility of information, particularly in relation to institutions and their operations. Dennett and Roy's work on the 'transparent future' discusses how technology is making secrets harder to keep, leading to significant changes in the way institutions must operate.

๐Ÿ’กEpistemic Landscape

The 'epistemic landscape' refers to the overall state of knowledge, belief, and understanding within a society or culture. Dennett discusses the fundamental changes to this landscape due to technology, which has increased access to information and made secrecy more difficult.

๐Ÿ’กReligious Belief

Religious belief is the acceptance of the existence of a higher power or powers, often accompanied by specific doctrines, practices, and rituals. In the video, Dennett reflects on the changing landscape of religious belief in America and the role of technology in this shift.

๐Ÿ’กCommunity

Community refers to a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common. Dennett discusses the role of religious communities in providing a sense of belonging and support, which he sees as a valuable aspect that may be lost in a secular society.

Highlights

Daniel Dennett, a philosopher and cognitive scientist, discusses his concerns about artificial intelligence, particularly the issue of counterfeit people and the impact on trust in society.

Dennett's latest book, 'I've been thinking', is a memoir reflecting on his career and ideas.

He warns that people are looking too far ahead with AI concerns and should focus on the current problem of large language models like GPT.

Dennett sees AI as capable of evolving on its own and potentially creating parasitical informational objects that can destroy trust and civilization.

The philosopher discusses the pressure on truth in today's society and the concept of a post-epistemic world.

Dennett's work 'Breaking the Spell' has seen a decrease in religious belief in America, with fewer people attending organized religion.

The new atheist movement, including figures like Hitchens, Dawkins, and Harris, has helped atheists come out of the closet and be recognized in society.

Dennett and Roy published a piece on how technology is changing the epistemic environment, leading to a more transparent future.

The philosopher discusses the erosion of trust in news and the challenges institutions face in adapting to the new transparency brought by technology.

Dennett addresses criticism he received for being too hostile towards religion and defends his approach.

The conversation turns to whether religion provides something uniquely useful that nothing else can provide.

Dennett suggests that understanding the vastness of the universe can be a substitute for organized religion.

He acknowledges that religion provides a sense of community and belonging that is important for many people.

Dennett discusses the challenge of maintaining religious communities in the face of societal changes and the need for competent leadership.

The interview concludes with Dennett expressing appreciation for the questions and the discussion.